Unlocking the secrets - The Sun

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14 theSun | THURSDAY APRIL 17 2008 CONVERSATIONS Unlocking the secrets TAN SRI ABDUL KHALID IBRAHIM CAME TO PROMINENCE AFTER THE “DAWN RAID” OF THE LONDON STOCK EXCHANGE IN 1981 WHICH DELIVERED THE GUTHRIE GROUP INTO MALAYSIAN HANDS. AT DAWN ON MARCH 9, THE FORMER CEO OF PNB WAS PART OF ANOTHER COUP WHICH BROUGHT SELANGOR UNDER PAKATAN RAKYAT. THE MENTRI BESAR TALKS TO TERENCE FERNANDEZ AND MARIA J. DASS ABOUT UMNO, PIG FARMING AND THE STATE’S DIRECTION UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP . Tan Sri, the integrated pig farming issue is getting out of hand. Is it true you approved such a large area? Well, the exco during (then mentri besar Datuk Seri Dr Mohamad) Khir Toyo’s time approved over 300 acres (120ha) of land. And he admitted that he in fact agreed in principle. There’s no issue here. Let me explain. When I came in (as mentri besar) I read all their reports, quite elaborate reports. I don’t think they made a decision without much thought. This indicated that they were serious. They went around town … they even went overseas, did environment reports, studied them and made their decision. And as a professional, I looked at the decision and said “hey, this is reasonable”. But of course I wanted to make sure of some issues such as integrity and equality where all pig farmers are involved and the sharing of the cooperative is fair. So I improved the implementation process and said “OK, we approve it”. After all, the other option is to just leave them as they are and there will be pig farms everywhere; or ban pig farming altogether which is too drastic. This is the best option. It is clean and sophisticated. So we had three options and we chose the best one. Your administration seems to be going out of your way to bridge the cultural and religious divide – a legacy of your predecessor. Do you fear you may be alienating the Malay/Muslim community with these overtures, including preaching a more just economic policy for non-Muslim communities? Not at all. Part of my exco team includes three people from PAS who are highly professional ... doctors, architects. Dr Hassan Ali is a motivator with a PhD in town and country planning. They look at things very rationally, so even if you have a so-called Islamic framework, you have to take care of all the people who are going to live with you. Your detractors say you are compromising on Malay rights. Oh ya, I’m quite sure they are. The people from Umno are using it to say how PAS and even I betrayed the Malays by allowing this sort of thing (the pig farming issue) to happen. But politically, we are in a different environment. Fifty years have passed. We are already globalised and this is the way to go. In Ijok, the younger generation contributed the majority of my votes. They came from the 21-40-year age group. They wanted change. Those who are close to retirement don’t seem to want much change. People are getting more and more globalised and vocal. And only now the BN realises that newspapers are not the only communication platform. They don’t go into the internet or alternative media. So is it safe to say there won’t be any more temple or church issues in Selangor, with the previous administration seemingly reluctant to approve new places of worship? The exco has started a committee headed by Teresa Kok, which includes Dr A. Xavier Jayakumar and Ronnie Liu for non-Muslim affairs. First we must accept this: How many churches or temples do we have so we can secure them … are they in the right place, so we can rectify it if they are not. They should not be on TOL (temporary occupational licence) land or squatter areas. If need be, we must recognise the land for religious purposes, then we charge them rental of RM1 a year. We are moving towards this. Previously, each time there was a request for a church, one was told it could not take the shape of a church, no crosses must be visible and the location is in some industrial area. Churches end up looking like factories! Even the Shah Alam church took 26 years to establish. We must change this. Even like pig farming, they raise their songkok for this and that. It is not the way to go. We must change this mindset. Cabins belonging to political parties have mushroomed on open spaces and playgrounds around Selangor. Will you be demolishing these illegal structures? We have given instructions to all local councils to follow the law. Ronnie is in charge of this. We have to work in stages. All public amenities must be protected. But that issue we are not pushing yet as there are bigger issues we are tackling such as protecting forest reserves. We want to contain the reserve land from deforestation. There are about 4,000ha. With the playgrounds, it is a matter of one or two acres, but here we are talking of thousands of hectares. Some of these forest reserves are alienated to state-linked companies. Ya lah, to some state agency, but there is a slight twist. There is a joint venture. The state agency gets a small 30%. If the company fails, the state will suffer, if the company makes money, it gets 70%. So we are reviewing it. If we don’t, there is a bigger problem. So these playgrounds, we leave it as it is until we sort out certain major issues. Of course we are coming back to them as we need to provide alternatives, and if the playground has been intruded into, we take action. One reason open spaces continued to be developed under the previous administration was the state government’s refusal to gazette them as requested by the prime minister. We will gazette them now. But we must also understand the meaning of zoning. To these people, zoning means tomorrow you can de-zone. So we have to explain zoning and a lot of research has to go towards this, as we don’t want situations where you zone one area and then later discover that it is not suitable. Of course the (state) staff have to face up to the new way of thinking. At every discussion we ask about social, financial and environmental implications. So they really need to get used to us. Because last time it was just “saya setuju” (I agree), you don’t need to consider any implication. Once you get a letter (from the top), everything else is irrelevant and you don’t need to think or write a report. But the culture is different now and is starting to take a bite at them! Do you trust your officers? They were once working hand-in-glove with the former administration. How do you reconcile this fact with the reality that you need them to help you run the state? I have to live with it because if I want to make changes and want the people to be with me, I cannot throw everyone out, no one will trust me as an agent of change. Of course, if they cannot cope with the new way of working and thinking, they can opt not to work with us. Of course I have taken a positive attitude that everyone is interested in change. But it is difficult to discard the old ways, one reason being that one has built this relationship with his previous boss over the last eight years. I can see things change. Now they realise, as there was a recent statement by Khir Toyo on the duplication of land titles which hurt a lot of staff. He said it was “in-house” work. It frightens everyone. It could be one or two persons involved, but if you say “in-house work”, then I have to pacify everyone. Now I am winning their trust. At one stage they said “this chap will protect me”. But now this chap is not protecting anyone! He is protecting whoever he is protecting (laughs). Speaking of fraud in land offices, it is a problem that previous administrations have failed or refused to address. What makes you think yours will be successful in resolving it? First, we need to have proper electronic recording such as ETanah which is in place; then you must make it available and be transparent, and the procedure must be well known and there is no such thing as official secrets any more. I am unlocking the secrets so that more people will gain access to their records and there will be fewer instances of duplication. So you have uncovered more dirt apart from the dodgy land deals? Yes, but I have to take the attitude that I am not here on a witch hunt. I am here to develop Selangor and at the same to make the requisite changes. We see you have roped in the Anti Corruption Agency for this. Oh ya, the ACA was here this (April 9) morning and they have said they will be doing forensic accounting. Of course the ACA also needs to learn to live with us and share information and make a case. But the long and short of it is that the ACA also has its own political masters in the federal system. So sometimes, even after their hard work, the decision to pursue the case is not in their hands but unfortunately in the hands of the AG (attorney-general). The AG on whatever wisdom he has or influence, may not pursue it. So we are learning to work with the local ACA and later on learn to fight the bigger group. So, you aren’t confident of the eventual findings of the investigations? Well, during our discussions with the ACA, Ronnie and Hassan Ali were there. They are experts in lodging ACA reports from their non-government days (laughs) … as many as 20 to 30 and none have been pursued. I am not very optimistic, but at least now, people are seeing that we are doing something about it and these people (Ronnie and Hassan) have the training to push for it. You said you would run Selangor as a corporation. Having had a look at the books, are we strong fiscally? Yes, fortunately. Selangor is in much better shape because of the urbanisation. The quit rent received by Selangor is much higher than other states in the peninsula. It is in a vibrant environment and I think the state has enough resources to sustain itself. The budget is always a balanced budget. But the state can always improve. For example, I look at the fund management; they could get 2-3% on their liquid funds, but I can stretch it a bit by 4-5%. And 2-3% over RM200 million – that pays the salaries of everyone for one or two years. So the state has these resources, but how you refine it to move into a more competitive and value-added level takes a bit of time, but it is there. It is not that you are taking over a losing company – then to move up you must cut cost. If you translate the state into a company, this company has resources and turnover, but you can make it better. That means if someone can make it grow 2-3%, you can make it grow 7-8% with a lot of work. Can you do without federal funding, since the Rural Development Minister had announced that such funds will go directly to BN appointees in the state? We are not worried about that. If they channel it to Selangor, the multiplier will still be in Selangor. But, I don’t want to waste my time going to the federal government asking for money because I have enough The people from Umno are using it to say how PAS and even I betrayed the Malays by allowing this sort of thing (pig farming issue) to happen. But politically, we are in a different environment. Fifty years have passed. We are already globalised and this is the way to go.” theSun | THURSDAY APRIL 17 2008 15 work on my hands managing the resources. I am quite happy if the federal ministers do this because the people will now know that these are the people who should not be there. So over time, they will be cast aside. The more they continue to do this, the better we are politically. Let me say to you ... these people, they are in Umno ... one example is this pig farming issue. The report shows that MCA proposed this and then Umno worked with them, saying “let’s do it”. Nothing to do with racial reasons; it is socially good and economically viable to have a clean and modern pig farming industry. Now here comes a chap who wants to champion Umno who ignores MCA and now says it cannot be done. Can you imagine? If MCA continues to lick Umno I don’t know what level of dignity they have! This is the partner that they have. Can you imagine this? And none of the MCA leaders are willing to speak up. And here Umno says forget about the pig farmers, forget about the Chinese, even though they are in a weak position. I am enjoying this. It is a good thing for us. Let the Chinese and the Indians open their eyes to what sorts of fellows they are dealing with. Hey, it’s true you know. If I were an MCA man who promoted this, and now I am being betrayed, what am I going to tell the other Chinese? This is what people tell me and I say promote it so society knows that this is what you have experienced the last 50 years. Back to the earlier question, you have said Selangor can be selfsufficient. Of course, but I still grumble as Selangor pays a lot more in taxes than other states. If they don’t want to go through the states due to political affiliations, I am not worried, but if they don’t want to invest in the people of these states, I think it is unconstitutional as it is ultra virus to their decisionmaking as the people in these states pay taxes. I think they are doing it (investing in Selangor). If they aren’t or they try to do like in Terengganu when it was under PAS, subduing the state government there, they are killing themselves. They are shooting themselves in the foot! Lower growth in Selangor means lower growth in Malaysia. How has investor confidence been over the last month? I have more than enough investors coming to make deals with me. I got calls from international investors who have funds and say “I allocated US$500 million (RM1.6 billion) for you, you decide (where to invest)”. So I call them back and say “I’m sorry, I am now mentri besar, not your fund manager!” (laughs) Do they now feel it is easier and cheaper to do business in the state? I trust it is easier and cheaper (laughs). We have received many proposals. I told them to give me a bit of time, so I can settle the administration. If I go out now and do investment marketing when the infrastructure and administration cannot cope with their needs, they will be frustrated, so I must get myself ready first. Is it prudent for the Selangor govt to be involved in rescuing the Port Klang Free Zone (PKFZ)? What is in it for the state? Already RM4.6 billion of taxpayers’ money has gone towards bailing it out. Provided that the value is right, if the government writes off the value, I can manage it and the government can have a share in it. The intentions of PKFZ are good, but how to implement it in a more efficient and effective way? The idea of making an industry within the free trade zone has been done in Malaysia for many years, but the question is where is your cost? Is it in real estate or is it in trade? Unfortunately this whole thing is a real estate ploy to make gains by being a contractor and all that. But of course, with PKFZ, if the cost is too prohibitive, people will not come if you charge them based on your high cost (of operations) and your trading margin is very small. That allows a lot of turnover. But I think I can manage it if you If they don’t want to go through the states due to political affiliations, I am not worried, but if they don’t want to invest in the people of these states ... they are shooting themselves in the foot. Lower growth in Selangor means lower growth in Malaysia.” have a net worth of people who can do it. The government must be open minded, they must write off their losses. Then they can move on. But what about the RM4.6 billion of our money? The state will not be doing a bailout! Later on, if managed well, the value of PKFZ will be higher and we will own it. There are high hopes of a rehabilitation of the PKFZ with Klang Port Authority GM Datin Paduka O.C. Phang’s contract not being renewed and the appointments of Datuk Ong Tee Keat and Datuk Lee Hwa Beng as Transport Minister and port authority chairman respectively. We know that and I can sit down with them and speak to them on a business-to-business platform. Our idea is that you must be able to manage it, that’s all; not a political upmanship. It is in the state of Selangor. If it is prosperous, the state will prosper, so it is in my interest and I have also to provide infrastructure connecting to PKFZ. Initially people were talking about the politics of it, but that’s human nature. At the end of the day you have over RM4 billion invested, and how do you want to make it happen? We know you are not giving up your parliamentary seat in Bandar Tun Razak for Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim. But don’t you think you are way over your head taking on all these responsibilities? Is it good for the people? We have a mentri besar’s office in Ijok (his state seat). They (Khir Toyo’s administration which set it up during the Ijok by-election) didn’t use it. Now I use it. It is fully utilised! (laughs) Bandar Tun Razak is a question of getting the Datuk Bandar to work efficiently with the 10 opposition members of parliament, that’s all. Do you know that Selangor has vacancies for two advisory board members in DBKL? Now the Datuk Bandar knows who he is dealing with. Give me a few months so I can stabilise the whole thing. I think I can cope. The question is you must have the support of and quality people who work with you. Like a CEO, once you get the best lieutenants around you, it is plain-sailing. It just takes a bit of time. So you have capable people to delegate duties to? Yes, many. This is the challenge of a lifetime. I had that experience when I was about 32 or 33 years old at PNB. I enjoyed it. Now if I can get three or four people of that nature, they move everywhere. And they must have the right spirit of doing things. Fortunately Selangor is not a troubled state. It is like if you are going into a company that has problems, then you have a nightmare. Here you just need to refine and fine-tune it, and it will run well.

Role of rulers in picking mentris besar - The Sun

By Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad

A Concerned Malaysian has expressed his worry over the role being played by Sultans in the appointment of the Mentri Besar.

His Royal Highnesses have clearly refused to take the advice of the Chief Minister i.e. the Prime Minister. Instead, they have chosen on their own a member of the state legislature to head the Government.

We hear a lot of opinions on the propriety of the action by the Sultan. Some say he has the right to do this while others point out that as a constitutional ruler, he could not do this.

The Constitution says that the Ruler or Head of State must choose the elected member who enjoys the support of the majority of members in the legislative body to be the Prime Minister or the Mentri Besar. Subject to this provision, the Ruler it is who chooses and appoints the Prime Minister or Mentri Besar.

The Prime Minister, as Prime Minister, has no role in the choice of the State Mentri Besar or Ketua Menteri. His naming of candidate who should be the Mentri Besar is purely a party matter. Obviously, if the State is captured by the Opposition Party, he cannot name the candidate.

However, if the Ruler chooses someone who does not enjoy majority support, he could be deposed at a sitting of the legislative body through a vote of "no confidence".

After that, another member can be appointed by the Ruler to take his place. But if for some reason, there is no other candidate or the candidate with majority support is considered unsuitable by the Ruler, a new Government cannot be formed. The Ruler may then dissolve the legislative body and a new election may be held.

This new election may lead to the same impasse. The Ruler may not like the member with majority support.

However, it should be noted that this kind of thing had never happened during the premiership of the four previous Prime Ministers. Concerned Malaysians should wonder why.

Is it just that the particular Ruler is being difficult, unwilling to accept the principles of democracy, wanting to return to feudalism and the absolute authority of the monarch?

I do not think so. There must be a reason why the Ruler refuses to accept the candidate named by the party. But the Ruler chooses not to reveal the reasons and indulge in public debates. He merely expresses his displeasure by refusing to do what normally the Rulers would do.

Concerned Malaysians must ask what has the particular candidate done which is so wrong that it incurs the displeasure of the Ruler.

There are lots of talks in the town. Terengganu is blessed with petroleum deposits. It should get 5% of the total earning from oil production. The Federal Government; fearing the previous PAS government might use this money wrongly had withheld payment.

But when the Barisan Nasional (BN) regained Terengganu the money, now called "Wang Ehsan", was lavishly spent by the Federal Government on Terengganu. It is not a small sum. Over these years "Wang Ehsan" totalled several billion.

We know that since the BN regained Terengganu in 2004, all kinds of projects have been developed in Terengganu. This includes The Monsoon Cup, luxury housing for sale to foreigners, Crystal Mosque and theme park, university, etc. Some of these projects are very good but many are totally unnecessary and wasteful.

But what the Terengganu people are saying is that all these mega projects costing billions of Ringgit have been contracted out to people outside Terengganu. Terengganu contractors got practically nothing.

But additionally, they say the contracts all went to one person and they are suspicious that behind this person are members of the first family.The rumours also say that the previous Mentri Besar was responsible for these things happening and of course, they think that he might have benefited financially.

The rumours went on to say that the Prime Minister might have influenced the Mentri Besar into doing wrong things. These are all rumours. It will be quite impossible to prove anything as the perpetrators are skilled in hiding themselves.

This is not good for a Government keen to abolish corruption and be transparent. To clear its name, an investigation should be made.

But the public is leery of investigations by Government agencies and departments. Even Royal Commissions are not highly regarded. The people believe, not true of course, that the Government has been interfering with the work of the Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA), the Police and the Attorney General (A-G)'s Chambers. The say this is borne out by the results of investigations by these agencies.

When a Deputy Minister was accused of accepting money for the release of a detainee, the A-G said there was no case because the detainee said he did not give any money to the Deputy Minister. It is so easy. If you have a case involving someone, all the enforcement agencies need to do is to ask him whether he was involved. If he says "no", then there is no case.

For some reason, judges are finding that people accused of murder are not guilty because of insufficient evidence by the police. Yet people who are totally not involved in a case, who were not accused of any misdeeds and who did not appear in court at all and been given a hearing are found guilty and publicly condemned.

The public cannot be blamed for not having faith in Government agencies doing investigations. The public cannot be blamed for suspecting cover-ups by the Government or worse still the Government may be using these enforcement agencies to threaten people.

To clear its good name, the Government should get credible foreign agencies to do the investigation. Of course, they must be given full access to the documents etc.

Now my detractors are going to say I did worse things when I was Prime Minister. Well, if that is so, let us have the foreign agencies investigate me also. I am aware that people are looking into possible misdeeds by me during my 22 years so as to threaten me and ask me to shut up. So far they have not found anything.

Not only have I not taken anything that was not due to me while I was Prime Minister but I have given back to the Government and the people everything that I had received as gifts during my tenure of office.

The Government had offered me land in Kedah and Langkawi and I had refused to accept. I have a 5-acre plot in Putrajaya which I paid for even though the Government was offering it to me free.

Unless there is a frame-up, I think there should be nothing to pin on me. Even other accusations against me, including the dismissal of judges, were not my doing and I do not feel obliged to apologise. Ask the Tribunal to apologise.

The person asking that the Government should apologise for what happened to Tun Salleh Abbas may have forgotten that as President of the Muslim Lawyers Association, he fully supported the action that was taken. He castigated the Bar Council for condemning Tun Hamid Omar over the dismissal of judges. Now he wants to be more correct than correct. I wonder why.

[From http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=21210]

One foot in the door - The Sun

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16 theSun | THURSDAY MARCH 27 2008 One foot in the door DESPITE A BAD BACK AND FATIGUE FROM TWO WEEKS OF CRISS-CROSSING THE NATION, PARTI KEADILAN RAKYAT (PKR) DE-FACTO LEADER AND FORMER DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER DATUK SERI ANWAR IBRAHIM IS ALL SMILES, FOLLOWING THE ALTERNATIVE FRONT’S UNPRECEDENTED PERFORMANCE IN THE RECENT GENERAL ELECTION AND HIS IMPENDING RETURN TO ACTIVE POLITICS. HE TELLS R. NADESWARAN AND TERENCE FERNANDEZ OF THE CHALLENGES IN GOING INTO THE POLLS AND THE EVEN BIGGER TESTS AHEAD. Nades: One of your biggest challenges was (prior to the elections) getting a cohesive team. You had three different parties with three different ideologies. How did you manage to unite and convince them on having straight fights? Anwar: What’s so different about Umno, MCA and MIC? Or PBB or PBS or PBDS. One talks about ketuanan Melayu, one talks about Chinese survival, one wants Indian affairs resolved. It does not seem to be contentious as in practice they were able to show a cohesive stance. Similarly within Keadilan, PAS and DAP. Other than what’s perceived from outside … look at the manner they conducted the election campaign, they were together and worked well. We have Chinese voting for PAS, Malays voting for DAP. The people have spoken. They said: “Look, we want a cohesive Opposition, so today, so-called contentious issues of the past, like the Islamic State and Hudud have been resolved. It’s neither their (PAS’) manifesto nor their agenda anymore.” Nades: How did you manage to get PAS to drop the Islamic State agenda which they had been so vociferous on in previous elections? Anwar: I’ve convinced them and they also know my position ... if you want me to be involved, this is my position. Similarly with Keadilan and DAP. They must be seen to be multiracial and not questioning the position of Bahasa or the Malay position. You can adjust but the paramount interest of justice, catering to those who are poor and marginalised, covering all races must be realised. I think what was achieved last night (a meeting between PKR, DAP and PAS) is a very important beginning. We sat down and discussed for hours and looked at the issues and it was agreed that we must unite and make politically expedient decisions. Terence: It seems that when you go into elections it is easy to have a common front. But like what happened in Perak shows that once you gain power, it is a different story altogether. Anwar: What happened in Perak is less problematic (than those) in Perlis and Terengganu (laughs). Because the media is controlled by them; that is why the focus is on Perak and Selangor. But I don’t deny that there are problems. Even within Keadilan, we have contending candidates, the DAP and PAS also have issues. But in the case of Perak, I understand the problem. PAS had the least number of seats so naturally, for DAP to take a tougher stance is quite understandable. (But) Why does the media play up this huge issue? We took a position that was quite tough too – we support the MB; we support the administration but we refused to participate in the administration unless the spirit of cooperation is there. I have enough problems in Penang with having eight non-Malays and two Malays. To have a similar arrangement in Perak would not be wise. It does not mean the Opposition is cracking up and to be fair to DAP, they made adjustments. And I have to record my appreciation. That’s in the past, now contrary to popular perception that the collaboration is merely prior to elections or prior to forming a government ... as of last night (March 18), we have now entered into this new arrangement. It will be a much more cohesive force as it will not be like the BN or PAS or DAP… here is the agenda, about constitutional guarantees, what about the Malaysian Economic Agenda, basic tolerance and the perceived dominance of one race against the others. Terence: You needed this new resolution because you were ill-prepared for the aftermath of the elections where Barisan Rakyat took five states and Kuala Lumpur? You never expected the results. Anwar: I was very confident that we will take over the whole government. We crossed the one-third mark a long time ago. Nades: Reading your comments in a Singapore interview, we said maybe Anwar is overconfident? Anwar is sounding cocky that he can form the government. Anwar: The interview in Singapore was given after they cancelled the indelible ink and the reason they cancelled the ink was because we were edging towards that (winning the election). We had passed 48% of the popular vote. Edging about 2% a day of the shift; and they knew that. That’s why they cancelled the indelible ink. Which means they had 3-4% votes to cheat. So imagine if they had used the ink? And the postal votes? We would have won easily. Nades: Should the postal votes be abolished as we are not at war or in emergency. It was (mostly) meant for our servicemen in the jungles during the Emergency and the war against the communists. Anwar: No. Postal voting can be conducted in a transparent and fair manner. These people … they virtually have robbed the people of their votes. Like in Setiawangsa (which was won by Datuk Seri Zulhasnan Rafique) … we won. Then came 14,000 postal votes. Terence: We cannot prove this but is there any truth that in Lembah Pantai, where your daughter Nurul Izzah was contesting (and won against Datuk Seri Shahrizat Abdul Jalil), there were similar attempts? Anwar: Yes. But there was not enough to go around. In Teluk Kemang 7,000 postal votes were brought in, still our guys managed to win. Which means the number supporting us is big. That’s why I said, we will win if we get 55%. Even during the campaign I said you want to win with 50%, forget it! Nades: How are you going to put your economic plan into action while dealing with the sensitive topic of the NEP? Anwar: I drafted the MEA (Malaysian Economic Agenda) a year ago and gave a detailed explanation to civil servants about what we have planned for the poor and marginalised Malays, Chinese and Indians. We should start with regaining our competitiveness which we have lost, and attract more foreign direct investment. We have to build the economy upwards. With that in mind, then we can talk about distributive justice and equity. Terence: It seems that only Umno is opposing the MEA while the other BN component parties are keeping mum. You see, even in Umno there is disconnect between the thinking of the leaders and the grassroots. I will be meeting division leaders to explain this. I was portrayed negatively by Utusan Malaysia. They were demonising us, saying that we are traitors to the Malays. That’s interesting. “I am a traitor to the Malays”. I have not taken one share, no taxi permit, no contract in the name of bumiputra and all those so-called champions of Malays have taken hundreds of taxi permits, APs and contracts by the hundreds of millions of ringgit. So I said don’t enter into this (argument) otherwise I will smash them hard. Don’t use the racial card. If you say you are concerned about the NEP, it’s okay we can argue, we can discuss this but don’t start condemning us. I’ve appealed to them to stop this. Reviewing the NEP is not just (DAP secretary-general and Penang Chief Minister) Lim Guan Eng’s view; of course in my mind we should craft the words properly. Coming from a Chinese they would immediately play the racial card. It is unfair to Guan Eng, although I would have advised him not to touch on the NEP, but it was unfair to him because his words were taken out of context. He did say it was for the poor of all races. Nades: Closer to Selangor, what changes can we expect from the new government? Anwar: Firstly, it’s governance. There was so much of wastage, corruption, leakages and alienation of land. According to the reports I have, hundreds of millions of ringgit are literally down the drain. But we have to be careful. We cannot create the impression that we are going to dismantle everything, because we will lose investor confidence. People want We have Chinese voting for PAS, Malays voting for DAP The . people have spoken. They said look, we want a cohesive Opposition, so today, so-called contentious issues of the past, like the Islamic State and Hudud have been resolved.” theSun | THURSDAY MARCH 27 2008 17 stability and continuity. The only major issue we accept is the mentri besar’s recommendation to review the water agreement. The water agreement is virtually scandalous! And it is a burden to consumers. Nades: What about land alienation to cronies? You cannot take the land back because the deal is done. Anwar: There are many ways to deal with this. If the land is given, we can go through the plans; we want to know why this is done in such a way. Terence: But you are not going on a witch hunt, are you? Anwar: I think it will be a problem for us, because it is endless. Then we will spend the next two years just doing this instead of running the states that we won. Immediately our plans are to move on by ensuring a vibrant economy. Drawing foreign investment, but problems affecting the poor are top on our list. Yesterday we went to Kampung Jawa (in Klang) to visit the Malay and Indian squatters. A contention was the demolished temple. So I told (Mentri Besar Tan Sri Abdul) Khalid (Ibrahim), you better deal with this immediately. In two weeks get it done; give them their land and pay compensation to rebuild their temple. Of course they will demand for this and that. That’s normal, but we draw the line. Then it’s their housing status. Khalid was concerned with Ijok where some areas have no water supply. It cost just RM200,000 to supply the water, so Khalid has announced that water will be supplied. These things must happen whether it’s a Malay area, Chinese area or Indian area, it must happen. There are huge problems in Selangor and he (former Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Dr Mohamad Khir Toyo) has the audacity to talk about governance! I don’t deny that there are problems. Even within Keadilan, we have contending candidates, the DAP and PAS also have issues. But in the case of Perak, I understand the problem. PAS had the least number of seats so naturally, for DAP to take a tougher stance is quite understandable.” likelihood, with the dawn of the two-party system. Anwar: Yes, well, like I said, we actually won the election. Terence: While Anwar can become PM, there seems to be a dearth of individuals who would be able to govern and this brings me to the formation of the shadow cabinet. Anwar: Yes, when all these fellows took over … (former Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir (Mohamad) … they had no administrative experience. Myself too … so was the first generation of civil servants. As long as we have a clear programme and agenda, and more importantly here and now, clearer ground rules we will be all right. No way are we going to tolerate alienation of land to your son, daughter, son-in-law. No way! I think we have to work as a team. As far as qualified people are concerned, you look at (DAP stalwart Lim) Kit Siang, he is still there. We were discussing some election laws last night and he brought up some laws which I don’t remember. (laughs) He says, “Anwar you were finance Santiago on water and R. Sivarasa on human rights. Anwar:There you are! Some of them of course are not as well-known as I am but Siva is a Rhodes scholar … very articulate. Syed Husin Ali is one of the more renowned scholars. Nades: How did you manage 13 days of campaigning with a bad back? It was not easy. We were using my Dad’s car a Mercedes since it was bigger. I had to duduk bersila like in yoga. (laughs) Also, we had (PKR deputy president) Dr. Syed Husin Ali. He didn’t want to stand in this election, but he was here manning the fort, while I was travelling all over the country. I was wondering who would be doing this as (former PKR Youth chief) Ezam (Mohd Noor) is gone, Nik Nazmi (Nik Ahmad who won the Seri Setia state seat in Selangor ) is gone; (Sim) Tze Tzin (who won the Pantai Jerejak state seat in Penang) is gone … then I realised I was handicapped. My staff was making all the arrangements. to put you on Page One? Also associates who once had no time for you, but now are queuing up to see you? Anwar: (Laughs) I have no malice. You know, sometimes I laugh at these people. This is the quality of people and they think they are great. I have no personal agenda. They have. Some of them are scared. Dead scared! They came to see me saying we are sorry, but were forced to do this and do that. In a way it is good - not that it is fair for them to put me in prison and treat me that way … but it is a good experience. And if people make mistakes and are remorseful, we should give them a chance. I always believe that. Nades: What are your plans after April 13 when you are eligible to contest for political office? Your wife is Opposition Leader - a position which is being warmed for you. Anwar: Yes, but it is still early. Parliament only convenes in May. We still have time. I have to travel overseas for some engagements and I have to resign from my Terence: Do you positions (in several think the media As long as we have a clear proforeign think tanks and has been fair with academic boards) … the new state gramme and agenda, and more meetings and lectures importantly here and now, clearer governments under in Harvard and at Barisan Rakyat? ground rules we will be alright. No way Kennedy School … Anwar: They have are we going to tolerate alienation of we’ll see. But now the not been fair to them. focus is on having a land to your son, daughter, son-in-law. What with these cohesive Opposition loaded questions and No way!” and make sure the state their own agenda. governments are on Give them a chance track. to do something like minister, how can you not how I suggested to Guan Eng Terence: Are you ready to know this?” that he should go to the Malay take over? I said: “Yalah Kit, I don’t villages, no one highlighted Anwar: This is for the MPs remember.” Then he reminds it when he went to Tanjung and the people to decide. We me. Tokong. just want to make sure that I think he is certainly That’s why I was very the states are running well, qualified to serve. You have rough with the Utusan guy. It’s and that we are prepared for (PAS president) Hadi (Awang) not their fault though, I know Parliament. We have time to who has four years experience that when they start pushing, come to that. of being mentri besar of they have their instructions but Terengganu … and many repercussions can be great. Terence: If you asked me others. two weeks ago, one would Terence: Can we touch a dismiss Anwar Ibrahim Nades: Come to think of little on some of the media being prime minister. it, you have some experts organisations that used to But today, there is such on your side like Charles blacklist you but now want back the IGP and tell him, I cannot be a Penang leader if I can’t settle this problem.” Nobody wanted to go! Koh Tsu Koon, Shariff Omar, all the excos semua tak nak pergi! So I went. You know the problem? I told the mosque people, azan five times a day is ok but there were some announcements, touching on Melayu and Islam, some hints ... so I told them: “Lima kali. Lebih daripada itu, I have a problem. I kena rampas you punya mike.” (Five times. Anything more, I will have to seize your microphone.) So they said: “Jangan Datuk.” So I said: “You know I’m with you, don’t overdo it.” I also told Koh Tsu Koon to give them the land for the (relocation of the) temple. Nades: But what was your So, I told the (Muslim) problem with (former PKR people, you pukul budak Hindu vice president) Chandra umur 12 tahun, (hit a 12-yearMuzaffar? He came out very old Hindu boy) is not right. So scathing against you. they settled and shook hands. Anwar: I was in prison when Done. he first decided to attack and I only brought my smash me to pieces prior to plainclothes guards. Even the the 2004 elections. He had police were not allowed in the problems within the party, temple because people were initially with the Youth Wing already angry as they tear… Ezam, later (former PKR gased the neighbourhood. vice-president) Marina Yusof. I said the same thing to the I was still backing him but he temple committee: “I know came out very strong against your prayer times.” I was me. I still wonder why. studying in Malay College Kuala Kangsar where there Terence: After Chandra was was a temple next door. You released from the ISA, he don’t have to look at your seemed to be more prowatch. Teng! Teng! Teng! establishment. Teng! 6am. Teng! Teng! Teng! Anwar: Well, he went through Teng! 6pm. a lot. I can’t deny So I told that and I do them don’t That’s interappreciate his provoke initial contributions esting. ‘I am a because during to Keadilan. I did the Muslim traitor to the not want to pursue prayer times Malays’. I have not litigation (over his they were taken one share, statements against ringing the no taxi permit, no Anwar during the bells even election), but my contract in the name louder. lawyers advised me of bumiputra and So I told (to proceed) and the them that all those so-called letter (of demand) I warned champions of was already sent. the mosque committee that Malays have taken Terence: Do you I will seize the hundreds of taxi want to retort microphone. permits, APs and against Chandra’s So, to the contracts by the allegations about temple hundreds of millions committee, I the words you uttered when said if you do of ringgit.” you visited the the same thing, Hindu temple I will also in Penang? rampas your (Background: In March bells. 27, 1998, a group of And what did Chandra say? Muslims marched from the That I threatened to silence all Kampung Rawa mosque bells in Hindu temples across to the nearby Sri Raja Raja the nation?! It’s not true. Of Madurai Veeran temple, course I had to sound very angered by the loud ringing tough also. How do you solve of the temple’s prayer bells. the problem when they are The resulting clash between fighting like that? 500 Muslims and Hindus It is totally wrong what they resulted in several people are trying to portray me as. I being injured. The dispute am very indebted to the Indian was settled when the state community. They have helped government provided an me a lot. You see the Bukit alternative site for the Selambau fellow (Independent temple.) candidate V. Arumugan)? He Anwar: These accusations are said he will join PKR if I come excessive. Did he ask me what there and hold his hand. So I happened at the mosque? I was did. And he won, and now he DPM at that time and nobody has joined Keadilan! wanted to go down there. I went to the mosque and then Terence: What is your take the temple. on the new cabinet? Some (Then) IGP (Inspector say that it is very UmnoGeneral of Police Tan Sri) centric. Rahim Noor called up the Anwar: Ya! First I can see that Penang CPO (chief police there are attempts to respond officer) and told him: “Tell to the electorate but overall it Anwar not to go down to the is a disappointing line-up. It is mosque as the police cannot not catered for the expectations guarantee his safety.” of people. There seem to be (Incidentally it was Rahim some shift in policies but then Noor who gave Anwar his some characters tainted with black eye that inspired the PKR corruption continue to be in symbol). office… well, these are exciting I told the CPO: “You call times!

There they go again - The Star

ON THE BEAT: WONG CHUN WAI

It’s amazing how our lawmakers who repeatedly display political cockiness, make sexist remarks and behave in an uncouth manner can still get themselves re-elected.

THERE he goes again with his looney tunes. The incorrigible Kinabatangan MP Datuk Bung Mokhtar Radin has once again infuriated most Malaysians with another of his off-colour remarks.

The loud Sabah politician, who has a notorious reputation for using un-parliamentary language, created Malaysian parliamentary history when he uttered a four-letter word against a DAP woman six years ago.

The microphones of all MPs had to be switched off by the Speaker in the heat of the debate but Mokhtar’s profanity was loud enough for other members and reporters to hear. He must be proud of his record.

Strangely, the Hansard, which records the House meetings in verbatim, has no record of the outburst during the debate. Things would have remained that way until the media approached Bung Mokhtar in the lobby and, to their surprise, he admitted the deed and went on to defend himself on record.

Before that, the MP sparked a controversy when he uttered a sexist-tainted boleh masuk sikit? (Can I come in a little?) remark in his attempt to seek clarification from Bukit Mertajam MP Chong Eng.

As expected, he said he meant no harm and that the phrase was commonly used in Sabah.

[More at http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/5/13/focus/17710011&sec=focus]